Senator Mohammed Ali Ndume represents Borno South in the Red Chamber of the National Assembly. He served as Leader in the 8th Senate. In this interview, he speaks on issues around federalism, local government autonomy, Independent National Electoral Commission (INEC), state police, among other issues. JOY ANIGBOGU brings the excerpts:
The National Assembly is itching for Constitution Review. Nigerians see it as another jamboree by the lawmakers. Do you think Nigerians are bothered about that now, considering the battle for economic survival before them?
Democracy isn’t cheap, it is expensive. That is one. But that isn’t an excuse. Just because we want presidential system of government doesn’t mean that you give the players a blank cheque to write whatever amount they want and spend it. Fortunately, there is a budget process. We initially started with figure of less than N100b for both National Assembly and then it went up; it continued to go up and I think lastly now it is about N300billion. But that is almost like one percent or so of the National budget because the national budget is beyond N30trillion. Yes, looking at what Nigerians are going through and looking at us the National Assembly members— Senators, House of Representatives members and the life we are living and they feel like, look, this government is spending too much. So, I agree with that, that our expenses should be looked into so that all of us will look the same. About the Constitution Review, honestly, I don’t see any problem so much with the Constitution. No matter how you review the Constitution, review it weekly or monthly, as long as the fundamental purpose of government isn’t defended and what is the fundamental purpose of government? It is clearly stated in section 14 of our Constitution. That alone is enough, it clearly states the purpose of government. It is security and welfare of citizens. If the Constitution is just that one, all other sections are to ensure security and welfare of citizens. That’s ok. The other thing that we need is to strengthen the institution of government because these security and welfare to be delivered by three arms of government: the Executive headed by the President, and the state governors at the state level and the chairmen at the local government level. Then the Judiciary at the federal level that must dispense justice, regardless of who it affects and number three, the legislature. It is supposed to be an institution that will oversight the government. It ensures checks and balances. All other things will fall in place. You don’t need to tinker with the Constitution if the focus is on what I said. That’s my own opinion. Now, three things are at the core of our retreat here. One is federalism. Two is the issue of State Police and three, the enforcement of local government autonomy and four, I think, looking at our Electoral Act and process, even though that is a separate law itself but it is embedded in the Constitution. Let me start with federalism. I have made my point and I still stand by it. We have 195 countries in the world and only 25 are practicing the Federal Government system, including Nigeria. So, this clamour for federalism to me isn’t necessary. Of course, it is an idea, a very good one if looked into, can be considered but all these are in line with democracy. What is democracy? All of you know better than myself: government of the people, for the people and by the people. So, a decision of which way to go, I think should be more with those that populate the country. In doing that, this Constitutional reform, of course we are getting there. There will be a public hearing, there will be inputs from everybody and after that, the National Assembly passes it and it is the only law of the land and it is the only law when it is to be passed, everybody will stand up to answer his father’s name. So, I think the media will do this country great service if you downplay it (federalism) because now majority of the people are trying to put the cart before the horse and tension is growing in some places and now people’s attention is diverted instead of paying attention to good governance. No matter what type of system you are operating, if the government and the institutions that I mentioned aren’t strong enough to provide accountability, transparency, equity and justice, then it won’t work. But where there is equity and justice, where there is transparency, where there is accountability, citizens won’t care who is the head of state. And if these institutions are strong, then the President, or the Head of State or whoever is there is also not above the law and the legislature as an institution is also not above the law and also truly independent but interdependent. But that isn’t what is happening in Nigeria and that isn’t where the attention is going.
The most important thing today is good governance and looking at the laws that will improve on good governance, on accountability, transparency.
Our major challenge in this country is corruption. Up till now, we have no law that can proactively address the issue of corruption. If you see somebody in our system, especially a politician that is not corrupt, then he is lucky that he is God fearing. Otherwise, it is only in Nigeria that you steal money and you walk free and then you are celebrated. It is only in this country that you see somebody last week, he had nothing and then next week, he buys ten cars, buys jets and his brothers and his parents will be flying with him and they will say Allah has blessed our son. It is only in Nigeria that you do that. In other developed countries, they ask you, how, where and when did you get this money? I have tried severally in the National Assembly to initiate a Bill on Unexplained Wealth, it has never seen the light of the day. I went to a former President when I realized that you can sign Executive Bill on such issues but up till now, there is no Unexplained Wealth Act in Nigeria, there is no Unexplained Executive Order.
There is so much excitement over the Supreme Court judgment on LG autonomy. But a lot of people are of the opinion that nothing will be achieved, if the state governors are still saddened by the conduct of council elections. What is your committee doing about that? Should we strip the State Independent Electoral Commissions of that responsibility and give it to INEC?
Well, let me say that I support the LG autonomy because when you say it is an arm of government and it is not autonomous, then it becomes a problem. It is there in the Constitution and that’s why Mr. President went to the Supreme Court for judgement and it affirmed the autonomy of local government but we don’t make blank laws because it won’t work. So, if you want the law to be effective, you have to carry the people along. That judgement is very clear. If the institution is strong, it can be enforced. But we need to look at the laws and how it will be disbursed. Up till now as you have rightly observed, technicalities started coming up after the judgement. In fact, the worst of it, in one state, all the local government chairmen wore attires and went to meet their governor to say “we don’t like the autonomy.” These are four year tenure people talking about something that affects the lives of others.
I support autonomy because I have seen it work in this country before they lost their powers; Local Government constructed roads, provided lights, and built primary schools. But now it has come to a time when some local governments, if you say, take your autonomy, won’t be able to pay their teachers. That’s the caveat I am talking about. You don’t just have a blank autonomy. If you do it, there are some LGs in my state like Biu, Kawu, who can’t pay their salary. That’s where that idea of joint account came in to protect the weak local government. So, this is what we are supposed to look at in the Constitution Review, how to make the local government practically efficient and viable.
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Now, coming to the question of who is to conduct the LG election, I support the idea of INEC conducting the LG elections. They do Presidential, National Assemblies elections, State governorship elections, State Houses of Assembly elections, why not LG?
Now, one other thing that is propping up in the National Assembly is the idea of creating a National Local Government Electoral Commission. Why will you go and create a Commission for an election that they will do in one week, then they won’t do it again until another four years? The INEC we have currently is being underutilized. They can be used for other things and then the election in Nigeria— that’s another thing; it is complicated deliberately so that it will be manipulated. Why don’t you make laws that the votes will count and enable you to elect somebody you love? Why don’t you make laws that make it possible for INEC to monitor elections effectively when you even create a situation room? I think the fundamental problem is sincerity, and lack of fear of God.
Most states are clamouring for State Police, where do you stand on this?
I don’t support state police. That’s my personal opinion.
Why? Two reasons, or three. Right now, we have less than 400,000 police nationwide. We are clamouring for another operation of state police.
Why don’t you increase the number and do what I call TEAM: Training, Equipment, Arming and Motivation. And then adopt the United Nations recommendation on policing. We are 230 million Nigerians or thereabouts and we have less than 400,000 police, less than 200,000 Nigerian army, armed forces, not army. All our security agencies, paramilitary and the rest are just barely one million or more. We don’t have an army reserve, we don’t have a police reserve and you are saying that you should have another state police now, and the Nigerian police have performed credibly.
It is only now that you hear issues of excessive corruption in the police and that is because they are not adequately trained, adequately equipped, adequately armed, and adequately motivated.
Right now, our police are not adequately trained, you just send them to police college for six months and you deploy them to the field and you pay them N50,000 or less, especially these days now, right now that we are talking about. N50,000 cannot buy you a bag of rice— even if you are single, because mainly, most of them enter the army and police single. N50,000 with no barracks, with no uniforms, with no equipment. How do you perform? So, my own is, first of all, let’s have the number. The number is grossly inadequate and it’s not because there are no people that want to join the police but it is because the provision is not made there. Any time you advertise for police recruitment, army, immigration, you remember for immigration in those days, in Abuja, there was stampede. In my Constituency, when I was chairman of the Army, every time they were doing recruitment, because they thought I’m the chairman, more than 1,000 would troop here to Kano for recruitment. Even today, at our retreat, a young man approached me, he said, police, please help me. And you are talking about state police. The second leg of it, when you say you want state police and you are not paying the civil servants even the minimum wage, where are you going to get the money to pay them? The minimum wage is now N70,000. So, the truth of the matter is, let’s face the problem. Let’s increase police, train them, equip them, arm them, and motivate them and the country will be secured. It doesn’t matter whether it’s a state police, or federal police, or local government police. Police are policing to make people secure. When they start comparing us to America, no, America is 200 years democracy. America is a different country. So, I hope I’ve answered that question.
