How did you come to Lagos and what has been the experiences?
I came to Lagos to work, but eventually the person I was working with had some issues with me. I remember the day one man came to buy goods. As I was attending to him, I saw that he had a wound, a smelly wound that refused to heal for years. I placed hand on the wound, and the next day, the wound dried. The news spread. The next day, more than 50 people swooped on our office, wanting to see me. My boss said that that was not why I was there. When I went to Catholic Church, I didn’t have a rest because of demand from people. Even during Mass, people would swarm over me, wanting me to touch them, pray for them. I kept running from one Catholic Church to another on Sunday. In my office at Idumota, people came to me, not to buy goods, but for me to pray for them. So, my life became somehow, I was so miserable that I didn’t have a hiding place. In my house, my landlady gave me a quit notice, because sometimes they brought people suffering epilepsy in the night, knocking on the gate. So, my landlady was uncomfortable and gave me a quit notice. Somebody later told me that somewhere in Amuwo Odofin was a place some pastors went to pray. They called it “desert.” That place is now called Prayer Estate. Some pastors went there to have a quiet time with God. I started going to that place. Everywhere was bushy. I started going there to pray. People noticed that I went there on Sundays and started coming there to look for me. That was how Zion Ministry started. I never planned to have a ministry. I never planned to have a prayer group called Zion Ministry. People started coming to that “desert” to look for me. In hundreds, they were coming. At a time, Okada started coming in there. Keke Napep started bringing people inside that place. The owners of the land didn’t like the fact that a lot of people were coming to look for me and were bent of stopping me. They banned me from going into the place. They banned me, but left some other pastors that had small groups. People didn’t like this development. They confessed that they enjoyed my prayers. Some people, from nowhere contributed money, and I supported them, to buy the first four plots of land Zion Ministry is located now. That was how we came here. It was when we came here that we started looking for a name to call the place. It was never my plan to have a ministry. The journey just started like that. And it has not been easy. I have suffered attacks from different angles. I have experienced attack from east, west, north, and south. Some time ago, the occult people launched an attack because I make people surrender their charms. There were three gunmen who came in a bid to attack me. One of them was arrested and the two others fled.
You said something about tithe. There has been a controversy, with some pastors saying it is mandatory to pay tithe, and others saying no. What is your take?
There is nothing wrong with tithe. It’s one of the scriptural principles. I have never preached about it here for people to be giving me tithe. There are other ministries that collect tithe. Whether it’s a church or a house of God, tithe is to support the work, to help the people. I’ve never for one day collected or even asked people to bring tith here. I believe that people should do what they want to do from their hearts. Tithe is a scriptural principle, but it’s not mandatory. It’s not a sin if you don’t pay tithe. The way we are hearing it today on social media, some people saying if you don’t pay tithe, no heaven for you. They said that if you don’t pay tithe, God will tighten your hand and that if you don’t pay tithe, God will punish you. I don’t know about that. What I know is that in Malachi 3.10, the Bible just made it simple. Bring your tithe in my house and I will open doors and I will drive away cankerworm and locusts. It’s one of the scriptural principles. But it’s not force, that when you don’t pay, you have offended God. You know that here pastors magnify and amplify it so much. That is what is bringing a lot of controversy. But to me, if some people are willing to pay their tithe, they should pay. If some people are not willing to pay, it’s not a sin to them. What I believe in finance in the ministry is let people do what they want to do. I’ve never asked people to bring me first fruit before or give me tithes. Some people say, that Jesus did not pay tithe, he didn’t collect tithe. They say that tithe is Old Testament or something. But the same people are saying “no weapon fashioned against me shall prosper,” which is Old Testament. So, if you want to delete it, that means you have to delete and tear the Old Testament out of the Bible. Jesus did not come to condemn the Old Testament. The Bible says he has come to make it reality.
What is your relationship with the Catholic Church? You said that a reverend father told you not to abandon the Catholic Church. What’s your relationship with the church, your mother church?
I was baptised in the Catholic Church, received Holy Communion in Catholic Church and I was confirmed by the late Bishop Ochiagha of Orlu Diocese. You can imagine that some reverend fathers who have ministries like this are being kicked, even by their fellow priests, not to talk of when a layman is doing it. So, many priests love me; many bishops love me, but some are still doubting, asking “what is he doing? Why would he possess such power? He’s not a Catholic priest. Why would he possess that power? Why would he be pulling crowd?” It’s normal, I don’t blame them. Some of the saints passed through it. Some past saints suffered it because of the miracles they did. But later, they realised that the saints were not doing the wrong thing, but doing the right thing. I don’t blame some of the priests and bishops who don’t agree with me. Everybody will not agree with what you are doing. Even Jesus Christ was not accepted by everybody; they even said he worked miracles with power not of God. Some priests call me from outside the country, saying we are making the church proud. They said they have never seen any ministry by a lay person as large as ours in the history of the world. People say that there is nobody who had this kind of ministry in the Catholic Church who has never departed or started wedding people. They confess that they have never seen us wedding anybody or baptising anybody. They know what is happening here. I love those who misunderstand me. I don’t dispair over it. When Fr. Stephen Njoku started, so many people were against him. But today, he is the talk of the town everywhere. Those powerful priests in the ministry are even tormented, kicked against by some of their fellow priests. Those working against priests may not know what they are doing. The Bible says, a time will come when those who will hate you, those that will kill you will think they are doing the right thing. I love the Catholuc Church and I’m going nowhere. I will die here. If they blow me, I will stay in the church. One thing I love in the Catholic Church is that nobody can ban you not to be a Catholic. I have got to the level that I can never be anything except Catholic because I have already been confirmed. The only thing you can do to make me not to be a Catholic is to wake up the late Bishop Ochiagha from the grave and get him to take away the oil of confirmation from my head. So far that can’t happen, I must remain a Catholic.
We have noted what you said about remaining in the Catholic Church. Does that explain why you prefer the title evangelist instead of pastor or bishop or archbishop as we see in other places?
I just want to serve God humbly, gently. Even the evangelist, I’m not the one who called myself that. People started writing it. When I preached a good message, they say this guy is an evangelist. I’ve never for one day declared myself an evangelist, pastor, prophet. I see myself as Brother Ebuka. People are the one adding evangelist to my name.
Check this story on Part 3
Evangelist Ebuka Obi exclusive: Day I escaped gunmen’s attack (3)
