Senator Olaka Nwogu is a former chieftain of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP), lawmaker who represented Rivers East Senatorial District in the Red Chamber of the National Assembly and former chairman, Tai Eleme- Oyigbo Local Government Area of Rivers State. In this interview he speaks on the crisis in Rivers State, why external interference has caused the crisis to linger, among other issues. JOY ANIGBOGU brings the excerpts:
Are you pro-Wike or anti-Wike person?
For the purpose of the context, Wike has been the leader of PDP in Rivers State. I have worked with Wike as one of the loyal members of the party in the state. Generally I make bold to say that I am a loyal member of the PDP and my loyalty remains to the party.
There is some confusion about whether or not Minister Wike has been invited by the disciplinary committee led by Tom Ikimi. Has he been invited or not? Although we also hear that the National Working Committee (NWC) of your party has submitted a report on Minister Wike, Governor Ikpeazu, Governor Ortom and other members of the G-5. What do you know in terms of latest developments with regard to this disciplinary committee? And should Wike be disciplined?
In the same context of full disclosure, I am a member of the disciplinary committee of the party, of which Tom Ikimi is the chairman. Personally I was a bit disturbed when the reports came that Wike had been summoned at the time when the disciplinary committee has not even met to consider any of these things. So there has been a lot of misinformation to the public. Sometimes by people who should know better, who shouldn’t do that or reasons they know best.
And it actually muddles up the issue because there is the allegations that are flying all over the place and even the committee’s work is being put in a different light from what the committee has tried to do. The committee is still organising itself to now look at its function, study its terms of reference before stepping out to do anything. Yet even some officials of the party have gone out to start characterising what is going on, which is not true.
Last week we had Chief Dan Ulasi and he was of the opinion that before the disciplinary committee, former Governor Nyesom Wike, now minister, should perhaps be approached by the reconciliation committee. Do you agree with that? Do you agree that Mr Nyesom Wike has a right to some of the things that he did which some might consider anti-party, including working against your party during the last presidential election in his state? Do you think that he should first approach reconciliation before disciplinary?
I think we should situate the question more in a better way because when you put it that way, it’s like Wike is the accused and therefore what leverages are available to him, that’s not the case. We are trying to get a stronger PDP and certainly the issues predate Wike’s function as FCT minister and the so-called comments that have been attributed to Wike. What has happened is that Wike was a presidential aspirant of the party and there was a convention and there were matters arising which were never settled and Wike was very clear as to what he expected the party should do at that time. Several meetings were held, some of which I was privileged to sit at, both within and outside this country and so many efforts were put into it. Wike was so unequivocal and very clear, he wanted the party to succeed and he made every attempt to get that point out. Recall that at that time, Iyorcha Ayu was chairman of the party and the presidential candidate was Atiku and both were from the north and Wike had said for balance it would be good that one should be from the south that has been the tradition. Every effort to get Iyorcha Ayu to work within that framework did not work and every effort to get Atiku to make Iyorcha Ayu work within that framework did not work. So at the end of the day, for principles of party and also for the geopolitics and people’s conscience, the party went into the election divided. It was divided right from the convention. Recall again that the way the convention was conducted, at the time nobody, we should just go into voting, somebody came out and stepped down and altered the course of the convention outcome. There were distortions that the PDP knew but failed to take cognizance of or failed to act on. So up to this matter, those divisions still arise and it’s important for people to talk. So the need for reconciliation is necessary but Wike as the person who should be, who after reconciliation may, no I think that characterization does not come in. And if it’s even important to tell you, recall also that before Wike became minister of FCT, after Mr. President invited him, he took the liberty of writing to the organs of the party. He wrote to the state chapter of the party. He wrote to the South-South, which is the zonal chapter of the party. He wrote to the NWC intimating them that he has been called to federal duty, to patriotic duty and the party gave his nod on all levels. So when you talk about Wike facing this kind of committee, well I’m a member so I want to wait to see the content. If there is something there then we work on it. But it’s difficult to understand what the calls are about because it’s a thing of contest, what breaches has he made of the party’s statute and when you look at those, if there is something to act on then we act on it. At this moment we have been hearing calls that come from, even distortions that shouldn’t come up. All these things don’t help our party, too much falsehood and too much distortion of facts in the public space.
You worked closely with him when he became Governor, why is it difficult for him to accept that Fubara is the leader at Rivers state now?
Why is difficult to work with Fubara now?
The way party politics is structured, people like to believe that it’s an automatic right of the governor to be the head of the party. Even in the first republic, different people, sometimes a leader of a party is different from the head of government. In the case of Wike, he didn’t have a predecessor to hand over to him within the party who was head of the party. He organised, fought and brought structure. I recall that at the time of the election, he practically nominated Fubara to be governor. That made Fubara head of government, but did that automatically made him head of the party? The party allows contests, like the last congress, there were contests. So if you say the governor is head of the party, should you give him a list to write in the name of all the officers? People bought forms, people contested, people loyal to Wike who won, literally, the seats. Then people say you should give Fubara, and that is the contest in which this latest hullabaloo has gone. Should you subvert the democratic process?
Is it logical to have a man that is not a ground of the state, is an FCT minister, to be leader of a party in a state where you have a governor that is also a member of the party? Does it make sense to you?
This is a democracy. Yes, let me explain to you, because I am a politician. So this is a democracy. Let’s say a completely unknown person decides to join the PDP today, organizes the party and people follow him, and he decides this is the way I want to go with the party. So long as he gets the support and there is a contest and he wins, it becomes the head, maybe not the word leader, because this word leader doesn’t even arise. It’s the people who get the office become loyal to him, and he becomes the leader of that interest. Party is a collection of interest. Party is not one entity. It’s an organisation with a collection of so many tendencies
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Senator, you are not answering my question.
Is it logical for the most senior man in the political party in the state, which is the governor, not to be the leader to you, and you say you are a party man, and you are listening to somebody that has no role to play in the state politics again. Is it logical? Does it make sense? Or is it because you people are benefiting from the state? Like you were said to have collected houses from Wike. Somebody came here the other day and said you benefited from all the ledgers of Wike, and that’s why you were constantly saying everything good about it. You are saying now that when Wike came, nobody handed over to him. He led. He took his place. He fought for it. He did it because he was governor of the state. Wike couldn’t have been leader of the state if he was not governor of the state.
Why is it that now with Fubara, because you people don’t align with him, all of a sudden he’s no longer leader in the state? So is it logical?
Yes, if you allow me. My answer does not have to fit what you want, but if you allow me. The use of the word logical, yes, it’s extremely logical that the party can be led by the person who, for relevance, most members of the party align with. And what has happened in Rivers State today is that Fubara has emerged as governor by the benevolence of Wike, but the same people Wike used to make Fubara governor are still in PDP. And most of them have their allegiance to Wike. So why you would think that because he’s governor, they should automatically give him leadership? You then have to change the members because the members are PDP members. They voted for Wike. You see, there’s something happening in Rivers State today where most people who voted for Fubara feel betrayed, that even Wike is betrayed. And they stand with Wike. So when you think that they should just give back, then they should leave the PDP. They didn’t leave. And they occupy, or they are the people who are the strength of the party. So you will like the nomenclature leader to be put on somebody, but in politics and in democracy, leadership is earned. And in this case, the leader of the party is the man that most party members accept as their leader, and they do, Wike, with all sincerity.
I’m sure you know Chief Olabode George.
Yes
Chief Olabode George is one of the founding fathers of the PDP when the party was established in the 1998. Now, he says that Fubara is the leader of the PDP in Rivers, except you are saying Chief Olabode George does not know what he is talking about. And then you use the phrase that Fubara became governor due to the benevolence of Wike. The benevolence of Wike. What a beautiful phrase. However, the benevolence of the people of Rivers State, they were not the ones that voted for him, it’s all about Wike.
So I ask you this question. Some people are expressing the view that PDP should be careful with Minister Wike, and he himself has threatened that if anybody tampers with him or his political structure in Rivers State, he will destroy the entire party, and he will even go to the states of whoever is involved and destroy the person politically in his state. Now, is Wike bigger than the People’s Democratic Party, in your view, since you say he is such a benevolent man?
I just hope that as I continue to explain some of these things, you can also see it from what it is. Wike said, I was in that event, Wike said, if you come to disrupt my state, to destabilize my state, I will set fire to your own state. It was basically an ‘if ’ in a conditional thing. It’s a political talk. If you stay in your state, because truly those people have no business in Rivers State, and why you see this Rivers problem continuing today, it’s external interference. All sorts of people, usually Fubara is one of us, Fubara is part of Wike, and Wike is part of Fubara. By now, this matter probably would have been over.
People will not let it be. You see people coming up, whether on ethnic platforms or on some, you know, fellow governors. These were Wike’s colleagues just a few months ago, a year or so ago. Now you come up and you say, we demand this. And it shocks Wike. Remember, I tell you this specific case of Bauchi. It will surprise you that when you used, there was a time we said G5 plus one. Plus one was Bauchi governor. They were colleagues, and they respected each other.
So when you now take stance, and the man says, if you come to my state, I will come to your staet. It is a way of stay off. Everybody now interpreted it, how can somebody threatening this thing? But they forget the conditional precedent that do not come to my state. That was the clear message. Now on the, our elder statesman, whom we all respect very much, Olabode George, who can hardly go wrong. We respect him. You should also take it in context. He says that the leader of the state ought to be the governor. Ought to be. But there are circumstances. The circumstances that even birthed Fubara as a governor was the handiwork or the work of literally a single man. At the time he gave the government, he did not give the structure. The man wants the structure. So there’s a battle for structure. It’s understandable. It’s politics. All over the world, there are people of influence. A market woman might tell her market woman to go and vote for a particular candidate, and they will vote. The president of National Association of Nigerian Students (NANS) might decide that students should vote for a particular candidate, and they will go in that direction. You even see like in the United States where some senators for their contest, Trump has to come to help them win. So relevance by individuals is natural in politics. That was why I told you that there are interests and tendencies within politics. In River State today, there are two blocs, which has location by the division between Fubara and Wike. They went for contest and Wike won it all. And many people cannot understand why Wike must win. And you use the word, sir. You said a man not in the state. It doesn’t work that way. The people there believe in him within the party. Now, outside the party would then be part two. The party should be strong. And for the River State that we know, we can cast people if we can.
