By Henry Uche
Zamfara State governor, Mr. Dauda Lawal, in this Channels TV monitored interview spoke about the bandit kingpin, Haliu Sububu who was recently killed by the military, and assured that another kingpin, Turji would go down very soon.
The governor spoke on various issues.
How do you feel about the killing of bandit leader, Haliu Sububu?
I’m one of the happiest persons considering what we are going through in Zamfara State, as far as banditry is concerned. As you know, Halilu Sububu was one of the major kingpins in terms of bandits in Zamfara and the northern part of the country. He controls a large chunk of bandits, full of money, well connected in terms of sourcing arms and so on and so forth. And today, that guy is no more. He’s been dropped dead.
What about his followers?
It should be a different thing. You know, they don’t have what it takes. They don’t have the capacity like Halilu Sububu. So right now, they are in total disarray, including the likes of Turji.
Where is Turji?
Because the Minister of State for Defense and the CDS were going to camp in Sokoto in search of Turji, he is running somewhere within Sokoto axis and Zamfara axis, around Shinkafi area. That was a talk show. As far as Minister of state for Defense is concerned, he was only in Sokoto for just one night, and he left. The last I heard of him was in Kano distributing rice. So, what has that got to do with his presence in Sokoto? The guys have done very well- the military and other security agencies by killing Sububu. It’s a major development.
Has that brought some calm in Zamfara?
Of course, the whole of Zamfara now, and not just Zamfara, Sokoto as well as Katsina, Kebbi and Niger. We’re all happy and excited for what happened.
These guys have been said to be on Tiktok talking about their outrageous and terrible acts, even saying that they’re waging war against Nigerian state and Nigerian military; even Sheik Gumi said he is worried; are you worried about that kind of narrative too?
I think in this kind of war, propaganda will always play a role, and that is exactly what the likes of Turji are doing. I still maintain my stand, our forces have the capacity to neutralize these guys. You know, initially I spoke about political will, and it is now really they are showing the political will and is working. My prayer is it should be sustained and by the time they do that, believe me, as I always say, banditry will be a matter of history in northern Nigeria and Nigeria as a whole.
Is your government having any interface with some of these bandit leaders?
No, my stand has always been, I will not negotiate with the bandits.
Past governments have tried to have a handshake with bandits. For instance, a former Speaker of the House and a former governor in Katsina, had some interface with them. Some people think you can give that olive branch to see if they can drop all of those weapons; is it possible?
I keep saying this. I’m not a military person, or rather a security expert. However, from my little understanding of warfare, you only negotiate at the point of strength, not at point of weakness. There’s nothing wrong in negotiating with these guys, so long as they’re ready, they’re committed (holistic) and when they know, if they don’t, there’ll be consequences. It’s at that point that yes, when they show commitment by laying down their arms publicly for everybody to see, genuine without any condition, then yes, you can say that, but at this point when they know, with all their propaganda, thinking that they are more superior than the security forces, I don’t believe in that.
So, you’re taking the war to them?
That is exactly what we should do.
Some say you are giving them money and talking with them, there are some documents surfacing online to that effect
As I said earlier, my stand has always been- no negotiation with bandits, not even to the back door, not through any door. I have never paid them a dime. I have never in my life. Why would I do that? I don’t pay them. Do you have a copy of that document?
It’s online and the veracity is the reason why it is…
Let me explain this document to you; when you look at the heading of that document, it says ‘Northwest Summit in Katsina’. This Northwest summit took place three months ago. If you look at the background of that letter or that memo, there is no correlation between the headline as well as the content of that memo. When you go down to the memo and see when the memo was approved, this was an event that took place three months ago in June, precisely around the 24th, and the approval of that memo was on the second of September 2024, on my birthday. And I remember on that day, I did not sign a single memo. In fact, I was at the council meeting on that day. Now, with all my experience as an Executive Director of a bank for eight good years, you think, I’ll go low, that low, and sign a memo with the name of a bandit, all the bandits in Zamfara State. Remember, this is a world of records. Someday, I’ll leave that office, and somebody will look at that memo to say how the governor that stands very clear that he’s not going to negotiate with bandits, and he’s now writing names of bandits. Come on, I can do more than that.
So, this document is fake?
Let me also tell you something, in my administration, we have laid down process and procedure because for any memo that is originated, this is something to do with security, should have come from the Honorable Commissioner -security, and the second leg is a list of individuals, including journalists which have come from the Ministry of Information. And on that memo, in every memo we write, there is a word of charge on account that will be adopted with a balance showing this is how much is left in that account. And I challenge anybody to go to Zamfara and show me in our statement where such money was deducted. But then if you look at the address the way it was addressed as Honorable commissioner of finance, I challenge you, you have a correspondent in Zamfara, go to Ministry of Finance, show me any memo, any memo from me, 29th, 2023 to date, where I address my Honorable Commissioner that way, I will pay 20 million. If you see any memo that I used to address my Honorable Commissioner of finance that way, I’m ready to pay the 20 million Naira to that person tomorrow. I have given instruction to the Honorable Commissioner for Finance as well as the Accountant-General, go and look at any memo under my administration. If there is anyone that have addressed my Commissioner that way, I’m ready to pay N20 million on that.
So, this is not from your office, and it is false?
You know, the interesting thing is, like I said, technology has a role to play here, and when we saw that memo, we took it upon ourselves to go to the extreme and find out where it originates, the IPP address, and we are able to do that. And guess what? I have written a letter to the IGP, copied DSS, NIA, that we are going to take legal action. We must find where the memo came from.
Where did you trace it to?
It’s already before the legal team, we are taking legal action. We have an idea of where it’s coming from, it’s technology. You know, people are so narrow- minded. There are ways you can do things. I’m better than that.
So, you don’t have any back door or front door dealings with any of the bandits?
There’s none, not even the front door or back door, there’s not even side door.
Your local vigilantes and security network in Zamfara, how much empowerment and legal powers do they have to fight these bandits?
Remember, when we came on board, we set up the Community Protection Guard (CPG); this CPG is fully backed by law of the state of Assembly in Zamfara through the process recruitment, the DSS, the police, as well as civil defence, had to profile every candidate. It was based on their recommendation that we hired those guys. And like I said, even the role they are playing right now is key, because they understand the trend better than conventional security. So, therefore, they are always in collaboration with the conventional security in terms of leading the way, understanding the trend, and that was exactly what led to the killing of people. They were very instrumental. They provided intelligence.
Are you confident they might also help in the arrest and prosecution of Turji? Or you think Turji is difficult to arrest?
(Laughs)It is a matter of time. Turji, very, very soon, with what we have in place, with the collaboration between us and the Federal Government security agencies, believe me, is a matter of time, Turji will be killed very, very soon. Take that from me.
If Turji is killed or brought to book, would that bring some level of end to banditry in your state?
It may not completely do that, but it will bring it down significantly.
What would bring an end to banditry in your state?
What we need to do is to sustain this pressure- military pressure. If we’re able to sustain this within the next two weeks to one month, believe me, it will be a different story as far as banditry is concerned.
Apart from banditry, what about those carting away mineral natural resources, like the gold taken by non state actors and being helped by foreigners, the illegal miners… (Cuts in)
There is correlation between banditry and to some extent, these mining activities. You cannot rule that out. I’m always saying right now is, let’s have a proper way of coordinating the entire mining sector where there will be a proper collaboration between the Federal Government (because mining is on exclusive list). However, the land belongs to the state, so there must be that synergy between the two.
Is your government really giving out land officially to any mining company, either local or foreign?
What we did initially, yes, somebody can just get a license from Abuja and go to Zamfara or any part of this country and do mining. But this time around, we said, no, it’s not possible and that cannot continue. Let’s sit down and look at this holistically, between the Honorable Minister of Solid Minerals as well as all the state governments that have mining in their respective states, and come up with a very tangible way of doing these things, where the state would benefit, as well as Federal Government, that way, we will have absolute control of this illegal mining activities.
Do you have a list of official miners in your state?
It is difficult because you are just there as a governor, but not the one that is authorizing. It doesn’t make sense. There was a time I asked the Honorable Minister, can you tell me how much you are generating from all these mining activities as Federal Government? And he couldn’t answer the question, I wish he did, then I would have asked for my own share of the resources. So that means something fundamental is wrong.
Some governors say “my state is no go area for all these kind of illegal….”
I’m one of those. In fact, I have signed an Executive Order banning mining activities in Zamfara. It has been on for now, until we are able to put things that will be beneficial to all of us.
Your predecessor, Governor Matawalle and EFCC issue, is this personal?
There is nothing personal between Dauda or Zamfara government with Matawalle. Remember, EFCC made pronouncement sometimes around May 24 or thereabout of 2023, I wasn’t coming out at that time, that they are alleging he stole N70 billion. That was even before I took over. Now, by the time I took over, I realized that N70 billion they mentioned was a child’s play. So far, based on available records, we have realized over N250 billion that was not accounted for.
Are they stolen or are not accounted for?
It’s very funny. First of all, let me explain to you the state I inherited. I inherited a very, very dysfunctional state. When I took over, there was no 4 million naira in Zamfara State government account. The account was empty, it was emptied. Backlog of salaries for four months, there was no salary for three years. None of the Zamfara pupils wrote either WASSCE or NECO, I had to settle N1.3 billion for NECO, I had to settle N1.6 billion for WASSEC, for student backlog.
What about students who were due for graduation? What happened to them?
There was nothing. It was after we settled those fees, that some were even able to get certificates. The statistics are there.
Doctors in Zamfara are one of the poorest…
Zamfara has been the letter ‘z’ in terms of education, in terms of healthcare, in terms of infrastructure. Apart from the backlog of salaries, KEDCO, that is Kaduna Electricity Distribution Company, we had to settle N1.3 billion because all the ministries and parastatals, including Government house, were disconnected. For five months, there was no single drop of water in Zamfara because they couldn’t pay for the water treatment. Go and check, the judiciary in Zamfara, they were not paid their entitlements for good two years. I had to settle them N1.3 billion to clear the backlog.
Impact of projects in the state
If you go to Zamfara now, you will see it’s a clear different state. I wish you had listened to the Chief of Defense Staff, one of his comments, he schooled in Zamfara State, he schooled in Sokoto. But this time around, when he went to Zamfara, he couldn’t understand where he was because of the new development that is coming on board. Since 2011, Zamfara State government did not pay gratuity and pension to the tune of N13.6 billion, guess what? We have paid that now, we have paid more than N8 billion to pensioners.
